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Who is better: Nicolas Cage or John Travolta? Text Me Back co-hosts Lindy West and Meagan Hatcher-Mays return for this live debate from On Air Fest! Lindy argues that Cage has much more range on-screen and is far less controversial off-screen. Meagan (who used to run a John Travolta hate page on MySpace) points out that Travolta is a triple threat: Oscar-nominated actor, dancer, and singer with four top-40 hits. How will Ronald Young Jr. rule? And will the live audience agree?

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Meagan Hatcher Mays, Ronald young Jr., Lindy West

Ronald young Jr.  00:01

Face Off, the 1997 action thriller film starring John Travolta as FBI special agent, Sean Archer, opposite Nicholas Cage as terrorist for hire Caster Troy. This movie has an interesting twist in that their respective characters change faces, hence the title, and actually play each other for the majority of the film. So then it’s Nicolas Cage playing FBI Special Agent Sean Archer, and John Travolta playing terrorist for hire Caster Troy. It’s a ridiculous plot, but a very fun movie for most. However, in some ways, this film and perhaps some of their varied role choices throughout their careers, have inextricably linked the two actors, locking them an eternal face off and placing us in front of the question, who is better? Nicolas Cage or John Travolta? We decide once and for all with some familiar panelists right here and right now on this live episode of Pop Culture Debate Club.

 

Ronald young Jr.  01:44

Welcome back to Pop Culture Debate Club. I’m your host, Ronald YoungRonald Young Jr, let’s meet our panelists for the day, representing Nicolas Cage. She is a New York Times best selling author of the memoir shrill notes from a loud woman, and she also co hosts the comedy podcast. Text Me Back, hello and welcome Lindy West.

 

Lindy West  02:12

Hello, thank you for having me. It’s an honor to be here on behalf of Nic.

 

Ronald young Jr.  02:20

Also joining us, representing John Travolta is a lawyer and democracy expert who has been featured in The New York Times, Washington Post and MSNBC, and also co hosts the text me back podcast with Lindy. Please welcome Megan Hatcher Mays.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  02:37

Only the best for John Travolta.

 

Ronald young Jr.  02:41

So how have y’all been what’s new?

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  02:42

We’ve been fighting for weeks. Once you invited us to come, we we’ve been in a blood feud ever since.

 

Lindy West  02:48

We’ve been fighting so hard that the podcast is canceled. Yeah, podcast we’ve, yeah, you’ve destroyed it.

 

Ronald young Jr.  02:50

So we had, we had y’all on the show. That episode released. It was Macaulay Culkin versus Elijah woods. Y’all want to let the audience. Know how that debate went.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  03:01

I know what you’re thinking. How could Elijah Wood possibly win in a  fight against Macaulay Culkin, our favorite childhood best friend. Oh, but Elijah Wood did win. You want to know why? Because I’m that good. That’s how good I am at defending the most vulnerable in our society. Elijah Wood and John Travolta.

 

Lindy West  03:21

Speaking of the most vulnerable in our society, how about pitting a lawyer who passed the bar in New York again on the first try, an English major full of micro plastics. That’s not fair.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  03:37

This is a strategy, by the way. She’s trying to make you think like, oh, I’m just a baby. I don’t know how to debate. Do not fall for an audience. Do not fall for it, Ronald.

 

Ronald young Jr.  03:47

You only have to convince me. I mean, you could try to get the audience. I know we can incorporate that amazing All right. With all of that being said, are y’all ready to fight?

 

Lindy West  03:54

Yep, always. All right, fight and win, just like last time, where I think we can all agree that I won secretly, but you had to give it to Megan for the optics, because Elijah was the clear underdog.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  04:07

That’s exactly what happened. Yeah, so that’s not what happened.  Please continue, Ronald.

 

Ronald young Jr.  04:12

All right, let’s get to debate. Nicholas Cage versus John Travolta. We’ll start with opening arguments. Lindy, let’s start with you. Nicolas Cage is better than John Travolta opening argument.

 

Lindy West  04:24

Thank you. I am reminded my mind is called back to a day. I was on an old terrestrial radio program, and I was invited to a comical debate with a person from Portland about which city is better, Seattle or Portland? And there was another man on my team, and I’ll never forget his strategy, which was, we start we got on the radio for this debate, and he was like, Oh no, it’s cute, that it’s cute, that Portland thinks that it’s the winner. No, it’s cute. Yeah no, totally. You guys are really good. Um. And I feel like that’s the obvious strategy here, because what is this conversation even about? Nicolas Cage is bringing it on screen, on and off the court. He’s bringing it on screen with the acting. He’s bringing it off screen with his personal choices. He is. He is a member of the prestigious Coppola dynasty, arguably the peak of the dynasty. And he, in conclusion, has never worn a fat suit and has more successful hair plugs. Thank you.

 

Ronald young Jr.  05:34

Okay, interesting strategy. I like it. Megan Hatcher Mays John Travolta is better than Nicolas Cage.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  05:40

Thank you, Ronald, and may it please the Court. My name is Megan Hatcher Mays, and I’m here to defend America’s sweetheart John Joseph Travolta. I am perfectly suited to defend this man against claims that he is not as good as Nicolas Cage, you know why? Because I used to run a shockingly popular John Travolta hate page on MySpace from 2005 to 2007 it had like 500 members. What changed my mind? You ask? He’s undeniable. He is a cosmic ball of charisma sent to earth by Xenu himself. His eyes literally twinkle when he smiles. And his impact on culture is unquestioned, from Cotter to Greece to Saturday Night Fever to wild hogs to Pulp Fiction to Santa Claus in that one credit card commercial, it is clear this man has the range. He’s a triple threat. Did you know John Travolta is a singer with four top 40 hits? Nick care to comment. Anyways, we’ll get back to that. He’s an Oscar nominated actor, and of course, he is a dancer. He’s a meme machine. We must consider the lasting impact of Adel dazine. Must we? We must consider it now, these two are twin flames in many ways, two proud Italian men trying to make their way in this business of show they are two men with slightly odd energy who named their sons after their top hobbies. Travolta named his son jet because he’s a pilot and loves airplanes. And Nicolas Cage named his son Carlo because he has an unhealthy and alarming fascination with Superman, normal fascination. But only one man has the power to change culture without even opening his mouth, and that is John Travolta. He shook the world not with a line read, but by pointing his index finger up and to the right and then down and to the left, that’s all he had to do. And guess what? He did it again 17 years later in Pulp Fiction. He made a V with his fingers and moved him across his face. It was just that easy, folks, it was just that easy, and your dad is still doing that at weddings. That’s the impact of John Travolta. Nicolas Cage has no such power and can make no similar claim to cultural significance. And if we’re gonna talk about plugs only, Travolta was brave enough to live in his bald truth. He took them shits off as he should.

 

Lindy West  08:25

I have so many things to say to my colleague across the aisle. First of all, has anyone in this room watched Saturday Night Fever all the way through? We cannot, we can’t even count this as a film. It’s a lie. It’s a sensational film. That’s perjury. You have the audacity to sit here and say to my face that John Travolta has the range when Nicolas Cage can make us scream in terror and weep for our lives and make us weep for our broken hearts while being a complete freak the entire time. I I don’t care. I don’t think that we came into this to discuss who made a more iconic finger pointing dance move. We’re talking about legacy. We’re talking about acting skills, and I’m sorry if you told me a horrible movie just came out. It stars John Travolta. I will never go see that movie. If you say a horrible movie just came out, it stars Nicolas Cage. I’m running, don’t walking to the box office, and I just don’t think that there’s any argument to be made. It’s like, kind of, honestly, I feel sad for your client. And two or but one more, arguably good point yes is Adel daze, the peak of American culture. Yes, however, my favorite, that’s my favorite thing about John Travolta, which he did by accident, the accident. Yeah, my favorite things about Nicolas Cage, he did on purpose.

 

Ronald young Jr.  10:03

We’ll be back with more Pop Culture Debate Club after this break.

 

Ronald young Jr.  10:37

Uh, let’s dive into range. Okay, so you you threw down the gauntlet of John Travolta’s range. Can you please, Megan, dig a little deeper into that for us.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  11:55

Of course, now look, John Travolta is capable of nuance, right? He can be a cigarette smoking angel who smells like cookies. He can be Santa Claus. He can be literally the same. Those are two distinct characters. He can be a corrupt guy who shoots broken arrows. He’s a and he dances an action star who also dances, that is the definition of range. Meanwhile, Nicolas Cage has one volume, and it’s Nicolas Cage. I think we need to talk about face off. I’m sure you’re gonna ask about it. We’ll get there. But John Travolta has to be both John Travolta and Nicholas Cage in that movie, and he pulls it off. Nicolas Cage, can only do Nicholas Cage. Okay, that’s, have you seen the movie? Yes, I just watched it last night. Okay, this is, I’m sorry. This is purchased. His performance in that film is so unsettling. Joan Allen was crying real tears. He was punching photos on purpose, breaking the glass. It was not giving Nick John Travolta is wearing Nicolas Cage’s face. It was giving Nicholas Cage thinks this is really happening, and he didn’t even read the script that day. That’s just what he was going to do on that Wednesday.

 

Lindy West  13:16

That’s what Nicolas Cage brings to every film. It’s called mega acting. And invented it. What form of acting did John Travolta invent?

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  13:26

He invented multi hyphenateism.

 

Ronald young Jr.  13:30

The condition multi hyphenate.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  13:31

Yes, and he’ll never be cured. He’ll never be cured. He can do it all. Nicolas Cage can do a lot of screaming and and and he did threaten to kidnap the President of the United States. I feel like we can’t set that up.

 

Lindy West  13:44

Sorry, he threatened to save America by recovering the President’s Book of Secrets, which was stolen from the Library of Congress or something basement of the Vatican. And that’s what we need right now in America. That’s the energy that we need right now in America, and being a multi hyphenate betrays a deep insecurity, because you think you’re not good enough at acting. You gotta try everything. You gotta throw a bunch of spaghetti at the wall. And that’s John Travolta’s career.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  14:11

Here’s the thing, both of these men have played angels. You might not know that John Travolta and Michael and Nicolas Cajun a movie with Meg Ryan, whose title I forget city and angels. People called John Travolta believable as an angel. Critics called Nicolas Cage’s turn as an angel. It was described as resembling a serial killer. That’s his only volume is serial killer. I’m not saying it’s not fun, entertaining. Yes, better than John Travolta, no.

 

Lindy West  14:45

What? I’m sorry, so what do the American people want? Maybe we can check the Rotten Tomatoes scores for each of those movies and see if they like city of angels or Michael better.

 

Ronald young Jr.  14:57

Do you have that readily available? If you do, no, I don’t.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  15:00

He’s not prepared for this.

 

Ronald young Jr.  15:05

Lindy, let’s let’s just tapping on range a little bit. You talked about Nicolas Cage’s mega acting, yeah. Do you think there’s more to him, besides the one volume that Megan is talking about? And can you give me an example?

 

Lindy West  15:15

Yeah, I think he contains multitudes upon multitudes. I think that he ruined everyone’s life in Leaving Las Vegas, and he turned me into a new woman in the movie bad detective. What’s it called? Bad Lieutenant, Lieutenant protocol, New Orleans. Who has seen that because it is so good and you should go watch it. And then also, too, he plays Gerg in the Croods for the whole family. So I don’t know if a caveman a Bad Lieutenant, an angel and a guy in Las Vegas isn’t range, and he doesn’t have to do a gimmick like a little finger pointing dance. Oh, please. He’s a rom com King in Moonstruck. He’s romantic. We love him. He gives Cher space to shine. I just again, I find this conversation insulting, and there’s only one answer for the American people, and that’s Nicolas Cage.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  16:19

When people talk about Moonstruck, they talk about it like it’s a Cher movie, because it’s a Cher movie. People do not say that’s a Nicolas Cage film.  That’s a Cher movie.

 

Lindy West  16:32

Yes, and that’s being an ally. That’s what we want. It’s for white men to step aside and let Cher shine. Meghan, no, for sure you want him to pull all the focus in the movie.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  16:44

Again, Nicholas Cage is playing Nicolas Cage in all of those movies you don’t know him. It started out super cute. I think we’ve seen it. I think we’ve seen it.

 

Ronald young Jr.  16:58

Let’s, talk outside of acting.

 

Lindy West  17:00

Thank you. Good idea.

 

Ronald young Jr.  17:02

Okay, we can talk about themselves. We’ll get deeper into face off in a second, but let’s talk about them away from the camera. Who do you think is the more iconic actor? Megan. I mean, I’m sorry, iconic persona. We’ll say, we’ll start with you, Megan, and then we’ll come back to you, Lindy.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  17:17

It’s so very clearly. John Travolta, did you know this man flew an entire Oprah audience to Australia on his own jet? Can Nicolas Cage make the same claim? No, he cannot, because he spent all of his money on Superman nostalgia. He went bankrupt over it, guys, because he believes in sustainable renewable energy, such as being from the planet Krypton and flying using your own power. When you think about John Travolta, he is just such this, like, sort of this benevolent presence throughout American culture. I was just thinking about this, like, one of the most iconic photos ever taken, not just ever taken of John Travolta, but just kind of like in American history, is this picture of him dancing with Princess Diana. And it’s beautiful. You can tell she’s like, Oh my god, I get to dance with John Travolta, and she’s like a quasi head of state, and she was dazzled by John Travolta. Imagine anyone letting Nicolas Cage within 100 yards of Princess Diana, when this man is giving serial killer on screen, off screen, at home at the Wendy’s, it’s just murder all the way down. It’s homicide with this guy.

 

Lindy West  17:33

I’d like to say and enter into the record that apparently someone hasn’t watched very many murder documentaries, because if there’s one thing serial killers are not giving it’s serial killer, just a regular. Oh, he was so nice. He was my neighbor. He was so normal. Oh, he helped me with my mowing my lawn. And so if anything, John Travolta is hiding in plain sight as the killer, and Nicolas Cage is is not hiding his light under a bushel. He’s being his truest self. He’s contributing beauty to the world. Am I allowed to rebut about Nicolas Cages? Absolutely can. Nicolas Cage, okay. He owns multiple castles, except for he had to sell them due to tax trouble. He has tax trouble. Hashtag, relatable. He, at one time, owned the most haunted house in America. Every single one of these is such intense Lindy bait I’m like shivering. He successfully sued Kathleen Turner for libel for saying that he stole a Chihuahua. You know how hard it is to win a libel suit in America. He, he went on a quest for the Holy Grail, didn’t find it, but he’s he tried, at least as John even tried, and he’s been described as one of the most generous stars in Hollywood, giving many, many bucks away to the needy. And also he. Again, is not a Scientologist. And did you know that John Travolta literally lives in Clearwater Florida, because he is so into it.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  20:07

John Travolta may be a Scientologist, but Nicolas Cage is a Coppola. We all have our crosses to bear in this life, you know?

 

Lindy West  20:16

I’m glad you brought that up. Megan, could you please read for the No, I will not read for the court. Could you please read for the court exhibit a this quote that I’d like to enter into the record and read your evidence into the record? Get out of here. Objection. I’ll read it. Quote, every person who has famous parents is a Nepo baby and should be excommunicated from society. That doesn’t make any sense. Oh, they shouldn’t be able to be on television at all because their mom or dad is an actor. Here’s what I have to say about that. If they’re a bad actor, I agree with you. But for example, nobody ever says that about the HVAC guy. My HVAC guy is called Michael and Son, and when my HVAC is acting up, I call Michael or his son, and one of them comes over and fixes it. I don’t care. In fact, I love it. I love to see it. Megan, can you tell me the origin of that quote? I don’t recall. That’s from our podcast. Text me back and Megan said it just this week on the hair came out in favor of Nepo babies, in fact, arguing that they are more qualified for their jobs than regular babies.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  21:16

I actually don’t have a problem with Nicolas Cage being a Nepo baby. I’m just saying if you want to talk about like weird, cultish, bizarre people, you got to bring the Coppola into the conversation. What a cruel weirdos. You know what I mean. Name five weird things about them.

 

Ronald young Jr.  21:32

Not me, waiting,

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  21:35

Phantom Planet, Metropolis, his whole Francis’s whole vibe. What did you mean megalopolis? What’s it called?

 

Ronald young Jr.  21:45

Megalopolis?

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  21:46

Exactly.

 

Ronald young Jr.  21:51

Let’s okay, so let’s talk about like, their iconic roles. Like, what would you say if you had to pick the one iconic role for John Travolta Megan, and if you had to pick the one iconic role for Nicolas Cage, what would it be? You pick one? Everything else has to go.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  22:05

I mean, this is actually very difficult for John Travolta, because he has such a range of films from, you know, like, gotta pick one, from rom coms to drama to dance, he has it all. So really, you could pick one of your fancy and you could enjoy it the rest of your life. You know what I mean. But I think it’s, it’s got to be Pulp Fiction. You know what I mean, like that represents.

 

Ronald young Jr.  22:25

Pulp Fiction is the marquee John Travolta film.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  22:29

I do, yeah, I think he really brought sort of like a an earnestness to his.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  22:38

Him walking around in that banana slugs t shirt is not is it just the pathos of the banana slugs t shirt? That’s like, what he brings to this, like the fact that he can play a hit man covered in the blood of one of his victims and still make you be like, oh, like, that’s the power of John Travolta. You know what I mean?

 

Ronald young Jr.  22:58

Okay, Lindy, one iconic role, the rest.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  23:01

All the same. It doesn’t matter.

 

Lindy West  23:02

It’s impossible. They’re absolutely not all the same. This is a very, very hard question for me. Is it national treasure? Is it national treasure? Two book of secrets. Is it Con Air? Is it face off, in which I argue the exact opposite of Megan? I think Nicola cage is far better at playing John Travolta than John Travolta is at playing Nicholas Cage. And I think this is indisputable. But I’m gonna go with a true classic of the form, which is called, in which Nicolas Cage saves not only the city of San Francisco, but also himself. It’s a movie called The Rock and if you haven’t seen it, I you can leave early. What happens is Ed Harris is disgruntled. He is a former military man, and he decides that the only way to get revenge on America is to make big green balls full of poison and put them in Alcatraz. And so then they have to get the only man that ever escaped from Alcatraz, Sean Connery to break back into Alcatraz with the help of Nicolas Cage, who is a FBI agent, having a hard time. And guess what? They do it. And do you think Sean Connery could have done it alone? No. Could Nicholas Cage have done it alone? Yeah, maybe, probably. And in conclusion, everybody should go watch the rock and John Travolta has never saved Alcatraz from Ed Harris, thank you.

 

Ronald young Jr.  24:30

We’ll be back with more PCDC after this break.

 

Ronald young Jr.  25:41

Let’s dive into face off. Obviously you’re on opposing sides when it comes to each of their performances, but let’s swap them from the very beginning, all of a sudden, Caster Troy is now from the very beginning of the movie, John Travolta and Sean, whatever his last name is now Nicolas Cage. I’m confusing myself already. Do you think it’s the exact same movie, or is there something different about it?

 

Lindy West  26:04

Oh, it’s way more fun getting to see Nicolas Cage be the teeth gnashing villain. I mean, you do get a taste of it, because there isn’t part of the beginning of the movie where they are themselves. And it’s a joy to behold, because John Travolta is a big suburban at his core, big suburban puffy Doink. And I’m allowed to say that as a member of the big suburban puffy Doink community.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  26:29

I mean, it’s a totally different movie. I think they got cast appropriately because, you know, Nicolas Cage is deranged. So you know, of course, he’s playing like this deranged terrorist with a weird terrorist brother. But when they actually switch, you can just see the limitations of Nicolas Cage’s abilities. You know what I mean? Meanwhile, you have like John Travolta as the Nicolas Cage character has this almost like gleeful psychopathy throughout the whole movie. Nicolas Cage, he just is level 10 from start to finish. It’s like he just, he can’t ever not be that serial killer. And you can see that in these scenes with Joan Allen, where she’s like, terrified. She doesn’t realize that that’s actually John Travolta in there. And he really is just like, punching the shit out of a photo of their son who was murdered at the beginning of the movie. It he just couldn’t capture the range of Travolta in his performance as Nicolas Cage, as caster, Troy as Sean Archer in Nicolas Cage’s body, he’s just Nicolas Cage.

 

Lindy West  27:30

I just simply don’t think that’s true. I think he has many quiet moments. And I think that Joan Allen does, in fact, eventually receive the information.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  27:39

Yeah, you want to know why? Because they had a hand signal. Once again, John Travolta can do it with just the wave of his hands. Oh, my God, over his son’s face. That’s how they knew.

 

Lindy West  27:51

Anyway, can I pose another little thought experiment? What if you had to recast the movie with only one of them playing both roles? Would you rather watch John Travolta or Nicholas Cage in both roles. I rest my case. No need to answer.

 

Ronald young Jr.  28:07

Let’s talk cultural relevance today. So these are two folks like we’re all Millennials here, and we’ve grown up with these two actors in a way that a lot of other people haven’t. The last movie I saw Nicholas Cajun was called dream sequence, which was a couple of years ago, but I know he’s done done stuff since then. They’re still working now. But in terms of cultural relevance to the audiences of today, who do you think is more enduring?

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  28:30

I definitely think it’s Travolta. I mean, I think look, what do you want me to say? Oh, his noodle is cage. It’s not. I mean, I think if you were to ask somebody like, name your favorite John Travolta movie. Or, like, when I say John Travolta, what do you think of like, they’ll they there’s, it could be a range of possibilities, because he has done so much. And again, anything from just like a dance move or two dance moves. Who has two famous dance moves? That’s crazy. It’s like Beyonce and John Travolta. You know what I mean? So, like, it’s like a strategy, listen, don’t come for me. I ruined my credit to see her at cowboy Carter. I’m a fan. I’m in the hive. Don’t fight me, please. I mean what I say. But so it’s just very rare for for someone to be, like, identified by a dance move, or just as easily could be identified by one of their many excellent films. Like, look, who’s talking made $300 million that’s crazy, and that’s just the baby’s thoughts. Look, you know what he’s talking is really whereas I think, like, if you were to ask somebody about Nicolas Cage, they’d be like, Oh, my God, that guy is crazy, which is not really about his career. It’s about like he’s a weird person. Again, that’s not a bad thing is. But if we’re talking about the impact on culture and like changing how we see the world, it’s you gotta give it to Travolta.

 

Lindy West  29:52

This is a moment for us to look inward and think about who we are, our national identity, our International. Identity as global citizens. Are we dancers? Who are, you know, a charming television Santa Claus, or are we a nation of weirdos who want to live in a castle and go on a search for the Holy Grail. Are we? Are we Normie disco boys, or are we some hybrid of Elvis and Superman looking to the stars to explore the cellar of the most haunted house in America and also the highest turrets of our German what’s it called? What’s a German Castle called? It doesn’t matter. I just don’t see why we would ever identify with this strange man who I don’t know anything about his personal life that I like, and yes, I like him on screen in several roles, but he doesn’t bring a flavor of joy to my lips and my heart and my heart’s lips. So I think that there is only one logical answer, which is that Nicolas Cage is all of us. And I think if there’s one thing we need in this modern world, it’s not more conformity, more cultish behavior, and look the history is most devilish villains have had a smile and an adelda Zim and a hilarious foible and a cute little dance move, and only one man is brave enough to always be himself, always do mega Acting, or the other thing he calls it is nouveau shamanic acting only one man, only one man has the heart Yes, and the courage and the brains and the ruby slippers to do that, and that’s almost cage.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  32:19

I do not think that this country was founded by nouveau shamanic actors. I think the Founding Fathers would have preferred Saturday Night Fever. I think only one man is close personal friends with the founding fathers. No, it’s so interesting, and that’s Nicolas Cage. I don’t think so. You know, what’s interesting is you keep bringing up like cultish behavior. Nicolas Cage is so obsessed with Elvis Presley that he tracked down his daughter and married her. It’s bizarre he is. He went bankrupt buying Superman merch. That is odd behavior.

 

Lindy West  32:50

So if what a point of life, if not to pursue joy and pleasure in all things.

 

Ronald young Jr.  32:56

We could do this all day. But let’s shift the closing arguments, because I think I’m not ready to make my ruling. I’m so nervous. Megan Hatcher Mays close me out.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  33:05

I shall listen. I know that when I was hired by my client, John Travolta, you all thought there’s she has no chance. But think of the evidence I have presented for you here today. He is a cultural king. He is safe enough to be seen in the same room as Princess Diana. He is not a serial killer. He does not resemble a serial killer. Nicolas Cage only has one volume, and it’s homicide, absolute homicide. He can do nothing else, and only he has another volume, which is go bankrupt buying Superman suits. He can do that too. John Travolta has done more for like American cinematic history than almost any other actor. He can do anything. Ronald, you asked me to close he can do it all, and he can do anything again. He flew to Australia with Oprah. Would you trust Nicolas Cage with precious cargo such as this? I don’t think so. And on top of all of that, he gives to us his beautiful gifts on screen and off. He’s a very generous person. He has given millions of dollars to Oprah’s school, a famous school that we all love and many famous alumni, I’m sure. And in closing, he never endorsed Andrew Yang for President in 2020, thank you.

 

Ronald young Jr.  34:37

Wow, justice for Yang Yang. Closing argument, Lindy West.

 

Lindy West  34:41

Did he endorse, Megan, none of your business. We’re facing a constitutional crisis here in this room. The answer to the question posed is self evident. Nicholas Cage is better. Nicolas Cage, we like him. John Travolta. Dia we see him and we’re not sure. Nicolas Cage, he’s funny. He makes me laugh. He makes me weep. He’s scary. He gives me all of the five flavors. John Travolta, not sure what flavor he’s giving. What I’m trying to say is, how did things turn out for Princess Diana after she met John Travolta. I’m not applying anything. I’m just saying we’re not it’s too soon. I was like eight when that happened. I’m in perimenopause now. What I’m trying to say is a lot decision. Look, I tell like it is much like prominent Yang gang member Nicolas Cage, but this isn’t about politics. This is about truth, and I know in my heart that just because I may be outgunned by a famous lawyer, I know that I’m right, and everyone in this room knows that I’m right, and Thomas Jefferson knows that I’m right. It’s written down in the President’s Book of Secrets, then Nicolas Cage reigns supreme. Thank you.

 

Ronald young Jr.  36:15

Wow. Are you ready for my ruling?

 

Lindy West  36:18

Yeah, I just once again, I’d like to reiterate, I refuse to accept the verdict. If you rule against me.

 

Ronald young Jr.  36:24

Okay, so it’s interesting, because I caught up on face off last night, and I came to a conclusion that actually I agreed with one of you that you’ve already said today, which made it tough to sit through the rest of the argument. Because I’m like, I kind of feel like, in a ways, my mind was made up when I walked away from it, but it was still interesting to hear both sides about it. I think these are, these are two actors. Who they’re ours. They’re they belong to millennials, specifically, in a way that I don’t feel like they belong to the boomers and X generation, just because of the ways in which they crossed over. Like, I remember when I saw Con Air, you know what I mean, I’m thinking about, like, John Travolta in Pulp Fiction. Like, that was, like, at a critical time of my life in the 90s. You know what I mean? Like, they both put out these films at time. I mean, Battlefield Earth, which neither of you mentioned, was one of the worst movies ever made. But, like, we knew that should have mentioned that, but we knew that though, like, it was, like, iconically bad, but it’s actually not enjoyably bad, like it’s not something you want to watch again, but it was iconically bad at the time. So there were, like, these little inflection points for both of them. Stealing the decoration of independence is something that we say over and over again. And remember art class in elementary school, we would draw John Travolta from Saturday Night Fever, like doing the pointing and all that. So they were both iconic, especially in my life, and I think in other Millennials lives as well, all of that being said, when I watched face off, what I felt was that when I saw Nicholas Cage as caster Troy, in the beginning, he was huge. It was big, it was bombastic. It was very fun. Then they switch roles, and all of a sudden, John Travolta is now playing caster Troy, and he is creepy and lecherous, and I hated him the entire time. But then I also realized when he was playing Sean, the FBI agent, I hated him. Then too. I was like, this dude is I’m sick of put Nicholas Cage back on and all of the ridiculous, weird ways in which Nicolas Cage was playing that role was making it more fun. Megan, I know you know that I appreciate your argument. I appreciate your argument, but I know you know that watching those movies, all of that being said, the final Adele in the coffin for me was the Adele dazeve thing, because, yes, it was iconic, but the second year, when they bring him back to do it again and fix it, he’s creepy by rubbing his hands all over her face in a way that we’ve never seen Nicholas Cage do to a woman out there. All I’m saying is I don’t see the evidence of Nicolas Cage rubbing someone’s face like that, especially at an awards show with all of that being said.

 

Lindy West  38:58

To do is Google it. I’m sure it exists.

 

Ronald young Jr.  39:01

I’ll give it a shot. But because of that, I ended up ruling in favor of Nicolas Cage.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  39:10

By the way, do you hear how shocked an audible gasp erupted from the crowd. Linda, congratulations. You want to rub it in, although she did say she wouldn’t accept the verdict so.

 

Lindy West  39:24

If the verdict ruled against me, I would not accept

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  39:27

Stop […]

 

Lindy West  39:31

No, Megan’s gonna do it January 6 on the cocoa deal. No. I mean, I knew this would be the outcome the whole time, and there truly was no other outcome, but I would like to say that I do love John Travolta in many ways, and I respect my opponent, and I sorry that I had to roast him.

 

Ronald young Jr.  39:51

But you want to apologize to the estate of Princess Diana.

 

Lindy West  39:58

I do, she’s the people everybody.

 

Ronald young Jr.  40:00

You in the room canceled.

 

Lindy West  40:02

I don’t think I could be canceled without overcame that to win, that was.

 

Ronald young Jr.  40:05

You almost tripped at the finish line, but I was like, nah. Megan, any final thoughts?

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  40:12

I do accept the ruling of the court. I will be appealing to the Supreme Court specifically to Samuel Alito, a fellow lover of Italians. Because, look, I think, look, going into this, I knew I had the challenge of my life ahead of me. Everyone loves Nicolas Cage because he’s fucking weird and he doesn’t even have to try that hard. But look, I do accept the verdict. I knew it was gonna be difficult because he is so funny and just a very bizarre person who can just kind of entertain you by existing, but I just, I do think if you look into your hearts, you can see which one of the two had a greater impact on cinema and culture, and not just who we think is funnier, because the debate was better than, not weirder and funnier than, but Ron, you are the boss so.

 

Ronald young Jr.  41:04

I really like that subtle trying to relitigate there very lawyer of you. Thank you both so much.

 

Lindy West  41:10

Thank you.

 

Meagan Hatcher Mays  41:11

Thank you all.

 

Lindy West  41:13

Thanks to Nicolas Cage.

 

Ronald young Jr.  41:19

Thanks again to Lindy West and Megan Hatcher Mays. Thanks so much for listening to Pop Culture Debate Club if you haven’t yet. Now is a great time to subscribe to Lemonada Premium. You’ll get bonus content like Chelsea White and Selena Coppock from the texting vs calling episode discussing the best text and phone call they’ve ever received. Just hit the subscribe button on Apple podcasts or for all other podcast apps, head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe. That’s lemonadapremium.com.

 

CREDITS.  41:42

Pop Culture Debate Club is a production of Lemonada and the BBC.   It’s produced by Jamela Zarha Williams, Kryssy Pease,  Dani Matias and me, Ronald young Jr. Our mix is by Noah Smith. Rachel Neel is VP of new content. Our Senior Vice President of weekly content  and production is Steve Nelson. Commissioning editor for the BBC is Rhian Roberts. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer.   Follow Pop Culture Debate Club, wherever you get your podcasts.